On March 12, the Bishkek Press Club held a roundtable on "The Future of Online Journalism in Kyrgyzstan" within the framework of the project "Strengthening Online Journalism in Kyrgyzstan" with the support of the British Embassy in Astana. Members of the Kyrgyz Parliament, representatives of NGOs, international organizations, media, including participants of Online Journalism School took part in the round table.

Roundtable participants:

Moderator - Radislav Safin, editor in chief of the Bishkek Press Club;

Abdraimova Alia, lawyer of the Institute of Media Representative

Naryn Ayip, editor in chief of the Information Agency "Kabar"

Alisheva Alia, lawyer of the "Civil Initiative of Internet Policy" Public Foundation

Ahmedov Rahmatillo, deputy head of press-service of the Ministry of Internal Affaires of the Kyrgyz Republic;

Beshimov Bakyt, deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh

Gorbachev Igor, editor of the human rights project IWPR;

Korneev Sergei, lawyer of the company "ElCat" 

Kulikova Galina, deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh

Kulinskiy Alexander, chairman of the Commission on administration of complaints against media;

Miyasarov Andrei, general director of the Center of Media Support

Rasner Maria, director of the Internews Network in Kyrgyzstan;

Sabirov Alisher, deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh;

Samykbaeva Lira, manager of projects in "Civil Initiative of Internet Policy" Public Foundation;

Sivashova Marina, director of Media programs of "Soros-Kyrgyzstan" Foundation;

Erjigitov Melis, officer of the press-service of the Jogorku Kenesh

Students of Bishkek universities

Representatives of the media

Radislav Safin: We are glad to welcome all the participants of the roundtable. This is the last roundtable from the series dedicated to the future of Internet publications in Kyrgyzstan. We would like to thank you for your interest in the events that we conduct. 

In the very beginning when we held our first roundtable from this series, in November 2008, there was an acute issue of a probable equation of Internet publications to media. In this connection the question whether we would be able to continue our own activity or certain obstacles would be created was quite a topical issue.  Initially, we were against the equation of Internet publications to media. At the same time, we realized the necessity of regulation of their activity. However, we incline more towards the view that it should be self-regulation rather than legislative regulation, which in the opinion of the part of expert community, toughens activity and affects freedom of speech. 

Since then many things have changed due to the efforts of Internet community.

Now I would like to give the floor to Sabirov Alisher Ahmedovich, deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh, the representative of "Ak Jol" faction. I would like to focus on the following: Alisher Ahmedovich, how do you see further developments of Internet publications in Kyrgyzstan? What has changed in your opinion since your participation in one of our first Roundtables?  

Alisher Sabirov:  Thank you very much. I am pleased to participate in this event today. I was offered to speak on the subject regarding "Prospects of development of Online journalism in Kyrgyzstan." Apparently it is connected with the fact that, in 2007, I initiated a draft law which equated Internet publications to media.  I am thankful to the many journalists, and NGOs who gave a hostile reception to this initiative in the beginning.

Further, we discussed both within the framework of your press club and in other meetings, the necessity to study the experience of other countries in their regulation of this sphere of activity. A month ago, we conducted the first international scientific conference that was called "Internet and Law." I am grateful to the participants of this conference. I believe that full transcript of this conference and recommendations will soon be published.

But the main result from all these meetings and events is that there will be no separate and specialized law regulating Internet. This decision is taken consciously, with consideration of expressed opinions of experts from the State Duma.  We had experts from Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and other international experts. Taking into account their recommendations and experience, as the initiator of the draft law, I took the decision that a separate law on the Internet is not necessary.  However, we should include separate norms in the Law on Media, and the Law on Informatization. We continue this work. We will consider all presentations that were produced at the international conference. We dealt only with the first layer of this multi-sided sphere, namely issues of legislative regulation of the Internet, freedom of speech on the Internet, as well as information security.

We plan to conduct a second conference, where we will discuss questions on business and commerce via the Internet. Many aspects will be examined. The work in this direction continues and the result of it will depend from those who are present today and from the participants of subsequent conferences - from their proposals and comments.

Radislav Safin: I believe we will have the opportunity to hear about your vision of legislative changes that will be entered not in the form of a separate law but in the form of some amendments. Now, I would like to give the floor to Bakyt Jolchubekovich Beshimov, leader of Social Democratic Party of Kyrgyzstan faction. We asked our second speaker to talk about the way he sees further development of online journalism in Kyrgyzstan.

Bakyt Beshimov:  I am pleased to see you again. As a matter of fact, we are discussing the future of our country because the entire 21 century will pass under the sign of Internet domination; turning it into the sphere in which an individual will develop.  The society which has limited access to the Internet, shall be an undeveloped state it will be like a rural province of a modern, prosperous, developing world. When we talk about the Internet, the question which arises is: what are the chances for Kyrgyzstan? Does Kyrgyzstan have a chance to have a modern society?

Owners, founders, and developers of web sites who work actively on the Internet are present here today.  I see young people that I am meeting here for the first time.  But in reality, I saw them on their web sites. I saw their photos, met them in chats, forums, and have read their blogs. It is very interesting. I am interested in the opinion of the youth.

My presentation was put so: "Threats to the development of independent Online publications" In fact, this is a good subject. Here are some figures. Look at the state of the Internet in our country. 1421 web sites are registered with a .kg domain. The number of Internet users is 760 000. Today at 3pm, on top.kg there are 378 active sites, and 23 915 visitors were registered. Now, compare this to the number of students, the youth as a whole in Kyrgyzstan, and the population of those under the age of 45. Look at the approximate number of the population who has access to the Internet and uses it, and also at the number of international organizations and different structures which can hardly exist without the Internet. You will see that there is a very limited space.

In my opinion, the development of Kyrgyzstan should be connected with the development of telecommunications. Yesterday, I talked with a director of the political department of the Ministry of Foreign Affaires of Germany.  We discussed the matter of why a German company was strangely excluded from the tender on Telecom. Some unknown companies claim to win the tender.  If we do not have a transparent system in telecommunications, then, effective business, and the opportunities for the development of the Internet, will be limited. This is the second factor that does not allow  Internet to develop.  When you are in the USA or Europe and you need to carry out a simple task, for example, to buy tickets for a theater or cinema, train or plane tickets, it takes you only 10 minutes and all the problems are solved.  Here, it takes more time for the same tasks. You will ask why? Because there are different kinds of obstacles, not only artificial ones, but also a lack of understanding of importance to develop these effective means.   

Let's look at the example of top.kg.  One can see the whole picture that shows our actual state of affaires. "Ak Jol" party claims to be the people's reformatory party. Let's believe it. Three and a half years have passed since 2005. To be reformers in this sphere, they should do at least one thing - to introduce e-government or its elements. According to top.kg, we have 378 active sites. There are no governmental sites among the first 25 sites from this list; number 26 is the National Bank of the Kyrgyz Republic, whose site was visited by 376 people. If you visit this site, you will understand the reason why it was visited.  Number 120 is the State Committee site concerning immovable property; number 197 - Ministry of Defense, because the new Martial Law has been adopted causing concern of parents and young men. Number 221 is the site of Chamber of Accounts, 235 - Ministry of Culture and Information, 247 - State Agency on Environmental Protection, 339 - Customs Committee, which had only one visitor. 

That's our e-government. Among almost 400 web sites there is neither the president's site, nor that of the government and ministries, where citizens should receive information. Authorities are there to render service; they are servants of the people. They are employed to serve for five years. Nevertheless only 475 people in total visited all of the mentioned governmental web resources. As opposed to the anti-crisis site woul.kg that had 921 visitors - twice as much.  Here, you hear the attitude of the people towards the ruling party "Ak Jol" which formed the government and has majority in the parliament.

I am constantly experimenting. As a deputy, I write inquiries to the president, premier minister and send them in both the postal and electronic forms since the leader of the "Ak Jol" Party claims that he takes into account what the media has to say, and, as an electronic engineer, works in the Internet system.  However, I have been writing using the Internet for eight months now and have not received any replies. This is a fact and we can not hide from it. All my numerous inquiries in electronic form are left without replies.   

It is necessary to activate a governmental resource to provide appropriate information. We have Internet services on mobile phones. Let us assume that I am driving from Osh and I need to know whether there is an avalanche further on the way or not. But I do not know how to find it out, who to call. Should I call to my friends in Bishkek and ask them if they by any chance heard of avalanches? Why can't the Ministry of Emergency put up such information on their site so that we could easily have access to it?  Or suppose that you are abroad, you are a labour migrant, a citizen of Kyrgyzstan, and you have some questions to the committee on migration of Kyrgyzstan, since you have a problem. What do you need to do? You are somewhere close to an Internet café and you have access. Whom will you address your question to? I write in the capacity of a deputy and can't get any reply, so what can a simple labour migrant do?

I wanted to discuss the existing threats systematically, but will go through points instead.

First threat - attempts to limit access to Internet. This is unwise, since it will require much money and it is a complete waste of time. It is technically impossible. No matter how much you try, you can not do this. If you close .kg domain people will use other domains. The only way to stop the Internet is to cut off electricity. However, even in this situation there is a solution - Chinese generators. One can turn it on for several hours to find out what is going on around you.

We are becoming digital people, Internet persons. That's why there is no use to limit us. I agree that there are subjects on chats and forums that threaten civilization and culture. We need to struggle against this by other means. The best way to struggle is openness, transparency, and free discussion, where civilized discussion of issues is demonstrated. When young and not so young people are taught not to say: "I do not agree with you, you are wrong," but to say "I have a different point of view on this issue." It is not about the discussion of a personality and its characteristics; it is about the discussion of ideas, regulations, and concepts. This will be more constructive.  Alisher Ahmedovich, my colleague, says that Internet space is a threat and that it is used by terrorists and extremists. Of course they use it.  What would you want? There is no reason not to use such an effective instrument. However, I think we can't stop terrorists merely by this. We should fight against terrorism by other means, including keeping the American base.   

The second threat - I believe Kyrgyzstan has a tendency to turn into a geopolitical remote place. What can you say about a country such as Nepal? You will say Himalayas, mountains of eight-thousand-kilometer height, and that's it. From time to time, the Maoists attack the government. What can you say about Bhutan? I was the ambassador in Nepal and visited Bhutan several times. There is a possibility that Kyrgyzstan will live the processes of "bhutanization," and it will not interest anyone anymore. There is a sole hope that extremists and terrorists will "save" us by their deeds, and the interest of the world to this region would augment. Global media interest to this region awakens only when a conflict or an environmental disaster happens. Other than this, it is of no interest to anyone.    

I think that communism in Central Asia will not be replaced by democracy, but by Islamic modernism at the best, and maybe then things will change.  

The third threat is the narrowing of the information market. Online journalism is not only a production of information, it should also be marketable and qualitative. Qualitative digital journalism is essential for this purpose. I believe we have it in Kyrgyzstan, and if you visit top.kg you will see that there are good elements. The leaders are AkiPress, 24.kg, "Limon", "Diesel." This is how a market is created. We should help to develop this market, and moreover we should try to link these markets to the markets, where our information could be in demand and cause a big interest. Kyrgyzstan is in the center of attention of media this last month. Many people from different countries came here, and information on Kyrgyzstan was published in many different web sites! It happened because there was a situation that had global signs.  

 I think, and my colleagues will agree with me, that the task of deputies is to create a way, through legislation, that would help them in the financial sector, in the development of telecommunications, in the support of the information community. In other words, deputies create favorable conditions. I analyzed the initiative of Alisher Ahmedovich critically and impartially, and came to the conclusion that there is the whole package - legislative base. The Internet can be regulated by laws on media. There are also such legal documents as the Decree of Plenum of Supreme Council and the Charter of freedom of press regarding access to information. Internet people have even developed the Regulation on Commission which controls ethical questions in the Internet space out of fear of "Ak Jol's" initiative.  I believe these are reasonable approaches. We should give you an opportunity to regulate the ethical side of this question and not create obstacles for you.  

Radislav Safin: Thank you. Now I would like to give the floor to Galina Kulikova, deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh, representative of "Ak Jol" faction.  

Galina Kulikova: Good day, dear Ladies and Gentlemen, dear young colleagues. I was pleased to accept the invitation to this Roundtable, as I think well of Bishkek Press-club and I am a deputy chairman of the Committee on education, science, culture and information policy. Our committee is precisely in charge of media and all the questions in this connection, including online matters. And the Law "On Television and Broadcasting," which everybody dislikes, is also the product of our Committee. I came here to hear your opinion, your thoughts and your arguments about the future of our online publications. Even though my colleague from SDPK is criticizing us, we find it great, as criticism will only make us stronger.  We develop good relations with our colleagues. We accept objective criticism and make certain conclusions.  

I would like to thank Bishkek Press Club, 24.kg, and other sites that often refer to us. I give my opinion and vision of different problems with pleasure and sincerely and I try to be unbiased. I like the fact that our interviews are not misrepresented and do not irritate others. I believe we will keep friendly relations with you and will respect each other. I am for good friendship and cooperation of the government, the Jogorku Kenesh, and in particular, with media.  Even though we are considered to be closed, we are very open. Every deputy constantly visits regions and meets voters.  We often participate in Roundtables and listen to your opinion. Tomorrow, NGOs will hold a roundtable called "Parliament with Eyes of NGOs and Voters" in the Historical Museum. "Ak Jol" faction is sending me there so that I listen everything and pass it on to the deputies, as Friday is our parliamentary day.

In addition, Alexander Kulinskiy is present here, a journalist who is very authoritative and respected among us. He is professional and is our public advisor. He informs me about the whole existing situation and expresses his opinion. I listen to his opinion because he is an authority for me. We all worked on the amendments, which a group of deputies are making to the "Law on Television and Broadcasting." We will actively and insistently lobby so that they are passed through the parliament; though I can say that there are many opponents against it. We will soon conduct a Roundtable in this regard. We invite all of you to participate in it. We ask for your active support, as you know that not everything is so easy in the parliament.

I myself have a great respect to journalism and would like to say that I used to read newspapers before, and now because of huge lack of time I read news from web sites.  I think that online journalism should be free and should not be limited by any laws. I am all for its independence, unbiased and true information on your sites, and information that is not ordered but that truly reflects reality.   I believe that one should not equate online publications to media. All laws and amendments made by Alisher Ahmedovich will go through our Committee. We have a certain number of people who are liberal towards all the amendments. We would like to have an open conversation and to hear all your observations and recommendations. Today, you can say where you see our mistakes. I am very glad that Melis is present here today, a person from our press-service. He will reflect in the site of the Jogorku Kenesh the conversation that will take part here. You are welcome at our site. We try to reproduce all the information. We are ready for an open conversation today.

Radislav Safin: We heard opinions of legislators. Now I would like to give the floor to Maria Rasner, director of Internews Network-Kyrgyzstan, to hear the journalist point of view in regard to the future of online journalism of Kyrgyzstan, in her opinion, and the prospective of its development.    

Maria Rasner: Good day. Actually, in my opinion, the prospectives are very good. Internet journalism can not be stopped. Alisher Ahmedovich, in all my respect to you, it is not important at all who will make those amendments, whether "Ak Jol"wants it and what SDPK insists on, this is technically impossible to do. But it is possible to work together in cooperation, and in the process of such dialogue, to achieve common results for the good and development of the whole society.    

Mrs. Kulikova proposes to make amendments to the law on television and broadcasting. It is irrelevant to the subject of today's roundtable; however this is a burning question. These amendments need to be made, and I think that authorities will hear us and we will conduct a rountable.  

Also I would like to make a comment: I wouldn't want the subject of online journalism to become a political confrontation between "Ak Jol," SDPK and other parties.  Therefore, I appeal to everybody, to the parties, the secretariat, and to all the rest to work in cooperation, irrespective of our political bias.  The Internet has not and should not have any political hidden motive.  I hope, Alisher Ahmedovich, that we can work on your suggested amendments together for the good of the whole society.  

Also there is one moment that concerns journalists: we shouldn't forget that equation will not change anything for us. Journalists shouldn't forget that all the ethical norms apply to us.  What we see now is probably a grievance that Alisher Ahmedovich and other deputies express in every public event. We make unsubstantiated statements. We should and will work together with our legislators, and we will criticize them when necessary. But let us not forget about ourselves. Before accusing somebody we should look at ourselves first and ask ourselves whether we are loyal to our profession, and whether we follow all the ethical norms that we must follow as journalists.   I would like Bektur to take the floor.

Radislav Safin: It will happen later, as there are several representatives, participants of the roundtable that expressed earlier their wish to speak.

Maria Rasner: We can talk a lot on this subject. However, people that use online resources and publish their opinions online should speak on this subject. Therefore I request to give them opportunity to speak out.

Radislav Safin: Thereupon presentations of speakers are over. I would like to point out that you have an opportunity to speak  or ask a question. Marina Sivashova, representative of the "Soros-Kyrgyzstan Foundation" wants to take the floor.

Marina Sivashova: I would like to express some recommendations to the legislators. The best is the enemy of the good. I have worked in the sphere of practical journalism for quite a long time, and then I worked in the academic sphere. Now I am working in donor organizations that support media.    In my opinion, even though it is ironic, very good and liberal legislation was formed in the time of Askar Akaevich.  Experts that come and work in Kyrgyzstan admit that nothing has to be cardinally changed; it should only be improved.  Every time I hear about an initiative to change legislation on media, I always have the same question: Why? There are many important and burning issues. Why do they take up issues concerning journalists? Indirectly, initiators have the answers when they explain their motives.

As for the media legislation, it would be great to work with the media community before a law is enacted to avoid its changing and amendment later on.   The "Law on Television" which has been enacted just recently, is not popular among television workers.  It was not thoroughly thought through. As a result, you will have to direct all your efforts and resources for its amendment. There is no initiative on state information security, where media is involved. The flow of violence on television and the flow of information in the print media, infringe information security in the wide sense of this word. We should think about it. Mr. Kongantiev's, the minister of internal affairs, initiative on the law concerning the security of children pleasantly surprised me. His concerns are quite comprehensible. After watching television, reading dirty stuff they go outside and it is reflected in their deeds and violations. It concerns everybody. The media sphere should be regarded from this point of view.

As for the good and bad media, this is very subjective. When media starts making justified criticism, there is an impression that from the legislator's point of view they fall in the category of ordered and bad ones. It is impossible to praise all the time. The media is different, and they react to the events occurring in the country differently.  But so that they do not seize their activity, there should be very little amendments regarding media.  

Radislav Safin: Alexander Kulinskiy would also like to speak. I would like to draw your attention that today there are many people wanting to speak and ask questions. Therefore, I ask you to stick to 4-minute time limit. 

Alexander Kulinskiy: Unfortunately, legislation in the post-soviet region is built on a principle that each of us is a potential lawbreaker. Legislation is written on the assumption that each of us should be punished if we make a misstep. Our legislation is issued not for everyday permanent implementation, but for its implementation when it is necessary, and against those whom it is necessary.  I am very cautious about legislative initiatives these days, because they will work in regard to the separate chosen people and only at the chosen time. They will not work towards all the rest. For example, the newspaper "Agym" is not and will not be amenable.  They will continue to publish a variety of filth and nobody can oppose them, including deputies. Though the new owner of this newspaper was and is a deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh, a member of "Ak Jol" party, and a member of "Ak Jol" faction. Both the party and the faction "Ak Jol" didn't mention that the publishing of such things in his newspaper is simply inadmissible.  Talk about the ethics of the deputies.

Second, for some reason, in our country, we always compare ourselves with something bad - Turkmenistan, Tajikistan. Bakyt Jolchubekovich shouldn't have remembered such countries as Nepal and Bhutan, because now they will be our new reference points for comparison. Why don't we try to compete with something good and developed? I would like to look at the wider scope - not only online media, but also online resources. Today, it is difficult to differentiate between them. Let's think wider, as Michail Sergeevich Gorbachev once said. There are many web sites that could be functionally useful.  In Russia, a new site called "Security" started to operate the last week. The site consolidates all force structures of the Russian Federation. As of today, on this site, it is possible to file a statement to the police, public prosecutor's office and any other investigating bodies.  On this site, one can get forms and can fill them right there, including forms to receive a passport. The site is very functional, and there is a lot of information necessary to every individual. Bakyt Jolchubekovich has justly observed that our state Internet sites, including the site of the Jogorku Kenesh, are not functional, not usable and uninteresting for a user.    

On January of this year, within the framework of the parliamentary project EU and UNDP, analyzed the work of the Jogorku Kenesh's press-service and discovered interesting things. Alisher Ahmedovich, Bakyt Jolchubekovich, Galina Aleksandrovna, the Jogorku Kenesh website only works several hours a day. When an administrator leaves the work place, he switches off the server and the site is inaccessible. When the administrator doesn't work on Saturdays and Sundays the site doesn't work either, as the server is turned off. As a rule, usually there is no internet in the Parliament in the mornings, because either the administrator doesn't have time to turn it on, or something else happens. The site works practically only from the afternoon till 6 pm. The press-service wonders why media does not use the information from this site. It is because the site does not work; it is inaccessible. In the process of the analysis, we began to understand that there is a problem not because the site doesn't operate, but because Jogorku Kenesh itself can not work with the site.  The officers of Jogorku Kenesh fear computers like death.  To be more precise they do not have fear when they are playing computer "Poker" games, when they visit the mail.ru site during meetings. They are not fearful in all other cases except when they need to work with information that is vital. Not once have I entered the offices of deputies and observed this interesting display.  The most interesting case happened when the amendments to the Law on television and broadcasting were supposed to be put up on the site. It was, however, done only five days later because the draft law was saved on a floppy disc, which is an anachronism these days. The floppy disc was damaged and therefore they couldn't put this information on the site. Here is the problem: our state bodies fear computers like death when it comes to the method of work and implement.  

Recently this problem has been discussed in the framework of "Open Kyrgyzstan," and NGOs had preliminary consultations with everybody.  During this, I asked them to speak exactly about this problem. There is a country that is not any less developed than our country; this is Kenya. The government of this country is not any less authoritarian than ours. But at the same time, it is more progressive than the government of our country. In Kenya, the participation of NGOs in political events is prohibited, and maybe it will happen in our country as well. For this reason Kenyan NGOs didn't have access to the recent parliamentary elections. However, the deputies didn't take into account that simple Kenyan citizens have mobile phones with video cameras, as a rule. Therefore all the infringements were filmed and put up on YouTube. The whole world saw the whole mess. No matter what the deputies and the government tried to do, as a result, everybody agreed that the elections were falsified and their results were cancelled.

The Kenyan government has also a progressive side: they calculated that it would be very expensive to publish books for such a poor country as Kenya. They chose to buy cheaper small laptops and distribute them to children, helping them to connect to the Internet. Today, Kenyan children can download the newest textbooks and manuals and study with their aid. They learn in the most remote villages, where they run around naked, but with a laptop. During the last six months, I have actively been visiting regions of Kyrgyzstan and I am surprised how undeveloped some regions like Batken region and South Issyk-Kul are. Fortunately people have access to Internet through mobile phones there. How can we talk about a quality education in such situation?

We often reproach journalists for their bad work. But if we look at how state bodies implement the same legislation then we can see a more terrible picture. There is a Law on access to information, which is under the charge of state and municipal bodies. I am one of the authors of the Law. When we were working on it, we implied that most of information would be available not in paper form, but through websites.  As of today, neither state body, including the administration of the president (and the president, as we know, is very fond of Internet), nor Jogorku Kenesh and any other state organization has implemented this law.  And it has a wonderful article 20 that lists 36 types of information that is required to be allocated regardless of requests by citizens. It simply has to be there. None of the state bodies has done it. None of the state bodies, including the Jogorku Kenesh, has allocated a notice that citizens may visit the sittings, if they wish to do so. This is provided by law, and the Jogorku Kenesh hasn't done it even once. I could list many other things. When we work on the information strategy of the Jogorku Kenesh, within the framework of the parliamentary project of EU and UNDP, we offer the deputies to conduct conferences with their voters through the Internet. Our people are not that undeveloped to not be able to talk with you through chats and forums, for example. Conduct online press-conferences, discussions of draft laws. Act by means of the Internet and you will be heard. Our country is built on antagonism. We always think that if the person is on the other side, it is impossible to talk with him. As the practice of enactment of the law on television and broadcasting shows, there was a misunderstanding and failure to bring certain information.  

Radislav Safin: Today, we have representatives of the state bodies at this roundtable. I think we can receive an answer to the question if they really fear computers. Now, I would like to address Alisher Ahmedovich. I can't avoid this question. You gave up the idea of a separate law that equates online publications to media. However you didn't tell us whether you plan to give up the initiative itself at all. Taking into consideration that you accept the idea of amendments in the existing legislative acts, what should we expect? And in this case, what in your opinion needs to be amended in the existing legislation?

Alisher Sabirov: This is not only my decision. We took the decision on the basis of comments of experts from the State Duma, representatives from Kazakhstan and Tajikistan, and England. When they clarified everything, I myself, as the initiator of the draft law, came to the conclusion that we shouldn't have a separate law on the Internet. I said it then, and I say it now, the separate articles of "Law on Media" and "Law on Informatization" need to be modified to ban calls for fomentation of international and interreligious conflicts, porno-sites, children pornography in the Internet.  

The Internet is used for criminal purposes.  It is immoral and inexcusable not to react. What information do we allow to assimilate? There is no such thing anywhere. Therefore, in this regard, I strongly support the regulation of the Internet. As Shamaral Maichiev said, the Internet is like a taxi, it is a means of transportation, but it shouldn't be used to transport children at the front seat nor weapons nor nuclear materials in the boot.  Only for this reason.

Maria Rasner: I have a question for Alisher Ahmedovich in connection with what you have just said. Why don't we refer to the Criminal Code? Isn't everything regulated there, including pornography and the crimes you have just listed?  Maybe, other points should be changed. But you mentioned only these offences. This all is stipulated by the Criminal Code.

Alisher Sabirov: Criminal liability is, of course, provided in our legislation. However taking into consideration that Internet sites and the dissemination of information on the Internet are not regulated by laws, the Criminal Code is not a ground for institution of criminal proceeding against such disseminator. Thus, the criminal liability is only one of the ways to fight against dissemination of pornography, fomentation of international and interreligious conflict. There are many instruments. We should now choose such an instrument that would allow us to regulate this sphere delicately.

Galina Kulikova: When we have such amendments and new articles at hand, our Committee will surely conduct public hearings and roundtables, and we will listen to your opinion. If you say that they are not necessary at all, we will consider it further. But if they are really necessary articles, we will adopt them. You will thank us first for these articles, and maybe they will also give you security somehow. We will do it together with you.

Maria Rasner: It's Kulinskiy, who will thank you.

Galina Kulikova: I know he has authority. And if every deputy had a competent, smart and professional person around, who would train and explain to us certain things that we do not understand, it would be great. I don't understand online matters much. Therefore please excuse me if I say something wrong. But if a professional in this sphere will explain it to me well, I will create a good law accordingly. It is great that we have such advisors.

Alisher Sabirov: I am also looking for an advisor.  

Bakyt Beshimov: I would like to express my opinion on some questions. It is strange to hear that the Internet is not a political issue. I think it should be clarified outside which politics it is: bad politics, aggression, destructive politics, where intolerance is fomented. Politics has somehow taken on a bolshevist way. Politics is relations between us in regard to our interests and our political groups. If there are sites belonging to political parties, political groups, then this is politics.

NowI'd like to talk about the site of kenesh.kg. Visit the site now and look at the pages of three factions, and look at our page. Before coming here, I visited this site. There are invitations and replies to letters. All the letters that we have received and replied to are published online. Those that visit us see it. However the direction of the Jogorku Kenesh, the structure that is in charge of information policy, is very disorganized. I use the Internet at home and before, I used it at AUCA. And when I came to the Jogorku Kenesh, I faced a mess. The last speaker told me that he should give his consent to put information. I couldn't understand how it is even possible. Now we tell them that the speed is slow and we need to publish information promptly online.  But they don't understand it. We ask them to give us the password and we would put up the information ourselves and take the responsibility for it. They would not give us the password. This is because there is a person, a representative of this structure, who carefully filters all that we do there. There is an attempt of a censorship. What do you expect from them if you are not even allowed to a press-room for a press-conference? And theInternet is a more complex thing. It is necessary to have competence and understanding of what information is and how to use it efficiently.

I don't want to answer for someone else's deeds. Please address the governing party. Lay the blame on the right shoulders. And I promise you that if we come to power, everything will become normal; everything will be fine with information society. We will break free from this mess and ignorance. I mentioned Nepal and Bhutan because I am worried that our country is being driven to this state. As for television and broadcasting, it is naïve to believe that the main factor is incompetency and misunderstanding. I spoke many times with initiators, and moreover, I was recorded as an initiator myself in the beginning. I refused and said that this is strange. I understood that the factor of incompetence not is essential here. It is a problem of the Jogorku Kenesh. It is very strange that because of incompetence, they introduce amendments that limit the Internet, NGOs, encroach on freedom of speech, and involve army in improper deeds. And you want to say that these chained events are caused by incompetence? Nothing of this kind.

I promised to give full disclosure in regard to all these decisions - it is not only a decision of Bishkek; there is also a foreign group that uses this method. Mr. Ryjkov told me that it began in Russia, and this strategy is called marginalization of opposition. This strategy is being implemented here as well. An idea is given in the Jogorku Kenesh and they ask initiators to carry it out. I am more than sure that some initiators from deputies do not even care about these ideas. They are worried about other matters. We should feel when there is an attempt on fundamental values, and try to oppose it.  

Bektur Iskender: We have not spoken much about the Internet today. I will look at it from a different side. Let's forget about political parties for a moment. The Internet is a space, self-regulated by users. In Kyrgyzstan (referring mostly to Bishkek), there is already some success -  very interesting success. Probably not many in Bishkek know about the Karakol striptease. Recently I read in one of the Karakol blogs that for the first time in the history of Karakol, a striptease was shown in one of the night clubs.  

We have many media resources, that cover much information, however sometimes there is an impression that they cover a very small percentage of all interesting things happening in Kyrgyzstan. And then the Internet appears where every user can write about what he has seen with his own eyes, and something that has never been covered by media. When the Internet just appeared, it was just a space for people who were linked by computers and technologies. The subjects that were discussed on the Internet were very specialized. Little by little very different and interesting people started using the Internet. Recently, two blogs have appeared in our blog platform.  Each of them is interesting in its own way because they were created by such  different people. One is the blog of a rich person who lives in Bishkek and does not disclose his name. He talks about expensive restaurants of Bishkek, movie theaters, is indignant at the behavior in the movie theaters. In contrast there is a blog of a person that talks about school fights in villages around Kara-Balta. I was very surprised. Do people know in Bishkek about the existence of such villages as Voznesenovka and Alekseevka? There was a big fight during the whole last year in which a school was against another school, and the village against another village. Normal media does not mention such things. Such information appears on the Internet with the help of invisible unprofessional journalists. They will form the Internet space of Kyrgyzstan exactly from the point of view of journalism, they will tell us more than anybody what is happening in Kyrgyzstan.

Last year, our organization kloop-media, which carries out educational activity, went to Karakol to conduct training on blogging for the local youth. Before this, we had an interesting research: we decided to check how well Karakol is represented in such popular social networks as Odnoklassniki.ru and sites of meeting. The result showed that there are quite a few such users. Those sites are used in Karakol as well. It shows us that interest in the Internet is emerging outside of Bishkek as well. However, people use it quite passively. According to our count, 600 people from Karakol are registered on the Mambo site.. However, none of them is represented in such blog platforms as Live Journal.

According to our count, there are 60 journalists in Karakol, and the population consists of 60 000 people. Before the appearance of the Internet, a large group of residents depended on a small group of journalists in receiving information. And the information was one-sided. After the Internet has appeared, anyone who has access to the Internet could become a civil journalist.  

It will develop independently, regardless of the fact whether laws are adopted or not.  This is a process that is impossible to stop. People have developed a taste in telling interesting things that happen around them. And even if there will be obstacles in their way, they will try to get around them.

Now, to develop online journalism in Kyrgyzstan, the state should be deprived of its monopoly on fiber-optic cable and it is necessary to avoid the monopoly of a sole Internet provider. Also, it is necessary to decrease the cost for Internet access. Solution of the problems of online journalism and popularization of the Internet come with an economic problem. Prohibitive measures are not very effective. At the conference "Internet and Law", which was mentioned by Alisher Ahmedovich, where many of us participated, representatives of Kazakhstan spoke and Kyrgyzstanis breathed with the sigh of relief when they learned that Kazakhstan is behind in certain things. The legislators started to prohibit many things there, and as far as we understood from the presentation of the Kazakhstani delegation, Internet publications were equated to media there. Live Journal became inaccessible in Kazakhstan. This is what Kyrgyzstan should fear the most - that access to the large resources and portals will be closed. We should avoid such tendencies in the first place. We also have a negative example of China, which engages inconceivable amount of resources to block information, often of political content, from its users. But as the practice shows, according to the bloggers themselves, they get around these obstacles.

The Russian authorities are now setting a positive example. Even though many countries blame Russia in some degree of authoritarianism, Russian has decided to go another way. Russian authorities have declared, not once, that they will not censor and filter Internet.   Russian authorities just decided to participate actively on the Internet sites which the public in Russia visits most. Moreover, they started doing it in public. For example, they created a video-blog of Dmitriy Medvedev, which has been broadcasted in the program "Vesti." Can you imagine the influence it has on Internet users? I believe this example could be a good one for the authorities of Kyrgyzstan. This is the example of how one can imagine oneself on the Internet and how to stimulate its development.   

For example, on Monday, Alisher Mamasaliev, deputy of "Ak Jol" faction, wants to meet with me because he has decided to start a blog. These kinds of things make me glad. So far, Bakyt Beshimov is the known blogger among the deputies. It is good that deputies from other parties now aim to present themselves on the Internet as well. Let's call providers to decrease the prices for Internet access. And we shouldn't prohibit online journalism, where we will find many interesting stories that take place in Kyrgyzstan.    

Radislav Safin:  Lately, while discussing about the obstacles in the way of development for Internet journalism, more and more often the media community and journalists refer to the possible limitation in the distribution of domain names. I spoke with directors of some Internet providers of Kyrgyzstan on this subject, and there were different assumptions that a competition regarding issues on distribution and registration of domain names is necessary. 

I would like to draw your attention to Mr. Sergei Korneev, representative of ElCat. Thank you for your kind response to our request. In this connection, I would like to address you to receive a competent answer.  In your opinion, as a specialist in this sphere, what has caused the initiative, connected with assigning registration and distribution of domain names to Kyrgyzpatent, and what kind of risks and perspectives exist? What minuses does it bring for Internet journalism in our country?

Sergei Korneev:  I don't know what has caused it. I have information that the Director of Kyrgyzpatent decided to undertake these responsibilities. Other than this I don't know anything. This is true that the number of domains is limited. The fact that, at the moment, registration of domains and the maintenance of registers in the .kg zone is carried out by a sole Internet service provider worries me the most.  From the economic and business point of view, there is a sole concern that this provider has exclusive access to registration of any domain according to its will; the risk of cybersquatting is obvious here.    

As for the transfer of domain management from private business structures to another organization, undoubtedly, according to the experience of other countries and on the basis of objectivity, the possibility of manipulation is very real.  Providers are interested mostly in disclaiming this responsibility and possible suspicions in misuse when distributing domain names. This has probably caused the initiation of the subject on transfer of the functions on registration and maintenance of domain names to a different organization. Let us suppose that the decision will be taken to transfer these tasks from the providers to a different organization. Which organization will this be?  At the moment, the following situation has emerged: there are three resources in the sphere of communications: radio-frequency resource, dial resource in the sphere of telephony and resource of domain names. It would be logical and ideal if the National Agency of communication, the ideal organization at the foundation, managed all of it. It was created for this reason, and was meant to be an independent agency. Then why it is not working? The State Committee on radio-frequency is in charge of radio-frequency resources, the National Agency of Communication deals with dial capacity. Who will register domains?

There is a common view that this problem would be solved by the foundation of a non-commercial and also nongovernmental organization, but which would include representatives of state bodies, businesses and some social organizations to provide maximum transparency in the process of registration of domain names. This problem has two subparagraphs: the registration of domain names and their technical support. In the case of founding such an organization, technical support should be entrusted to qualified telecommunications operators.  The question on which terms this should be done has to be worked on: either it will be a competition, or an individual decision of a conditionally authorized body, or consent of all parties, which will participate, if an independent body is founded.

According to an agreement, registering organization should have two providers. Technicians know why both are necessary: because primary and secondary servers are necessary; and this is a compulsory condition that has to be fulfilled. Two providers, which according to an agreement, will carry out the maintenance of this register for payment.  And this should not be higher than the cost price of support, and may as well exclude some margins. On the basis of business-processes, occurring in this sphere, the provider is not going to earn much money on this.

Radislav Safin: We would like to hear mostly minuses of this process. I will not be mistaken if I express the opinion of a majority of experts.  Regardless of a decrease in the price of registrating domain names, the following problem emerges: how transparent is their distribution? Many agree that money is not a problem; domain of the second level costs 80 US Dollars as of today. Accordingly, not much money is needed for its support. In this connection, a burning question comes forward: Who will regulate all this? Even though a number of Internet providers will be involved, in any case, you consider participation of the state is mandatory. Do I understand you correctly?   

Sergei Korneev: From the position I spoke of - yes. I am convinced that we will not be able to avoid it. We shouldn't go against the flow. I wanted to point out one more thing: when we talk about communication, we should be very careful. As a former military servant, I can say that the defense is ready only when the communication between defense subdivisions is ready. Any decision in the sphere of communication, to which the Internet relates, should be based upon the extent it affects a defense capacity of the state. Communications is the main part of defense capacity of any state. As for transparency, it will be at the same level as it is provided by normative acts.    

I would like to ask deputies a question. Any branch of law regulates relations between people: citizens, stateless persons, persons with double citizenships. The legislative body has to remember that any legislative initiative in regard to the Internet should regulate relations between people, connected by access to information; The type of technology that connects them is another problem, in my opinion. Let it be IP technology, analog technology or a pigeon post, it doesn't matter. The legislation should be aimed at the regulation of relations between people in the first place. We will understand at once whether the regulation is needed, if there are people that do not have a right to access information, while others have a right to the access of information, and a third group control it. It can also concern the problem of propagation of pornography on the Internet. I consider incorrect the term of "propagation on the Internet".   

The registration will be transparent as much as the normative act will describe this procedure. We have Regulations on State Committee on radio frequency. Deputies probably know that it was approved by the Decree of the Government. However as a lawyer, I am puzzled by the fact that there is a body, there is a chair, but it is impossible to appeal against actions of this body. If we follow this method, in other words, if the State Committee on radio-frequency makes decisions, then National Agency on Communication acts as a secretariat, an executive body.  I can't appeal against this decision, since this body de jure does not exist, it will then be clear who will receive domains and in which quantity, and who will not receive them.

Radislav Safin: Thank you for your talk about technical details of this question. We will still hope, and Internet publications breathed with sigh of relief as they will not have to write and approve personal draft law, and worry about change of domain names to .ru, .com etc.

Grigorii Mihailov: A small explanation for Mr. Beshimov. The site of the president and the government do not allocate top.kg counter, thus they are not listed in the rating. In reality, they have good traffic. They are simply not on the list. They have around 400 visitors a day. The site of the president is working well, especially since Oksana Malevanaya appeared there. The site of the government still has failures of access for two-three hours per day. Though finally, the State Committee on National Safety started to design their own site. Maybe we will read something there. The Kenesh.kg has recently become accessible from mobiles.

In the local .kg segment of the Internet, there is a mess similar to the Wild West, though there is no sheriff. At the moment, in the .ftp server, the largest provider of home networks, MEGALINE, for example, there are such records as "Faces of Death," records of real deaths of people at war, tortures etc. Just download to see it. Why it is still kept there is a big question to providers. On the other hand, blocking different resources, including those in the zone .kg, became frequent. Specialists know who blocks them but we will not talk about it.  However, the number of resources such as "Beliy Parus," "KyrgyzPress," and other sites, have suddenly become inaccessible. Everything opens without any problems when the Internet sites are accessed through satellite. Thus, the problem is in local and very often in state structures. The reason why it occurs is a big question.  

I would like to address deputies that elaborate contradictory laws. Please publish online comments and other information regarding laws that are in the process of enactment. You can also publish your discussions and arguments online. A separate site is not expensive, take free CMS. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the sites of the state structures work according to the leftover principle. Specialists that work there earn 4-5 thousand soms. Therefore, they do not try to work hard. As there is a head of "Kabar" here I will directly say a bit of criticism in your address. I am glad that the site has video, but very surprised that among the records of the president there are music video of the Beatles. Sometimes you have a very strange lay-out. In the state site the Beatles sings between the president and premier minister - this is interesting. Technical defects concern not only certain individuals. Because of the low wages the state service attracts only low-qualified specialists. This concerns everybody. This concerns opposition as well. Just recently during previous parliamentary elections opposition lost compromising record. They recorded on a dictating machine a certain conversation, and then accidentally erased it. For a long time, they tried to restore it but couldn't. There was a scandal.   

At the moment, authorities have started attacking on the Internet front. For example, on the diesel.elcat.kg forum, some individuals appeared, who advertised the "White House," and worked hard to draw attention. I would like to believe that the opposition will be able to present a worthy resource, which would also express everything clearly.  

Even if you will have problems with access, you can always move to the zone .com and improve mailing. You do work with journalists, but you have to collate information by yourselves. You meet with the voters and this is very good. Conduct meetings with journalists, not only roundtables, but also press-coffee, like some banks. They come and communicate with them. We will get to know each other better. We will be able to discuss matters, otherwise there is always a risk of misunderstanding and grievance.

Galina Kulikova: Come to all the meetings of our committee, We are ready to meet with you regarding all questions. We are open.

Radislav Safin: Since many opinions addressing state sites were expressed today, it would be unfair not to give them the floor. I would like to draw your attention that the last roundtable was dedicated to the work of state Internet portals. We had Sergei Masaulov, officers of press-services of ministries and departments, including Rahmatillo Ahmedov, the representative of press-service of the MIA. Could you please give evaluation of the statements of the roundtable participants? 

Rahmatillo Ahmedov:  First of all, dear colleagues and deputies, we shouldn't forget that the online space in our country is only developing. The fact that there are only three providers in the country also testifies about it. They also compete between each other. The other side of the coin is that the average age of users of IT technology or simply a computer is the youth. In our schools, a simple package with a standard list of programs is a desired gift, like manna from heaven. Let's talk about it. Before talking about problems of online journalism on a state scale, let's talk about problems of training of journalists. 

In my everyday work, I face such situations when a journalist calls and asks to answer a certain question. I listen carefully to the question and explain that the question needs clarification and specification, to which the journalist replies: "You don't want to cooperate, you don't want to work" and hangs up. Dear journalists, let's learn to cooperate. A clap is the result of work of both palms.

Today, I heard my favorite law, to which I refer very often, mentioned twice. Curiously enough we are fully guided by this law, Mr. Kulinskiy. Maybe we couldn't see some things, but we work on our mistakes. The last time I said this, and I will repeat it again,   the site of MIA is now under reconstruction. We work closely with designers and will present to you the new website that meets the requirements of this law very soon.   

As for the criticism of Mr, Kulinskiy regarding computer games as ‘Poker" etc., our state officers have made a huge step forward, and have forgotten about the computer game "Poker"  a long time ago. We have no time to play it in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I will give an example. Since 1997 there were no false driver's licences issued, thanks to the use of information technologies. Also, we have created a database of motor vehicles.  Do you think these people gain from sitting and playing "Poker?" Maybe you saw what you wanted to see. If you wanted to see more you would see it. Mr. Kulinskiy, tomorrow at 10 am, I will expect you in MIA.  

Andrei Miyasarov: What do you know about the initiative of the Ministry of Information and Culture, which also works on amendments to the Law on media? I am the director of an independent Bishkek printing house and since recently, president of the Association of publishers and distributors of periodical press for the Kyrgyz Republic. For our Association, this Law is very essential, therefore when the roundtables and open hearings are held we would like to take a very active part and we informed the Ministry of Culture and Information about this.

Alexander Kulinskiy: Why does the Ministry of Culture refuse to cooperate with us, even though they promised?

Alisher Sabirov: Our committee is checking the Ministry of Culture in regard to the implementation of the law on government services. I think we will answer your question next week. We know that the Ministry of Culture and Information has a management consisting of 9 people. If a third of it is working on this draft law we will surely ask for the details of this initiative. Unfortunately, the Minister is not in the country.  He is in Hollywood preparing a movie on Kyrgyzstan. Thus we can't ask him. He personally supervises the allocation of responsibilities and information management.  

Andrei Miyasarov: We talk a lot about television and broadcasting, Internet journalism. However in principle, everything derives from the basic components of printed journalism. Thus, it interests us great deal. Maybe we will start from the basics because the state of print journalism is awful.  

Galina Kulikova: Please leave me your business card, I will reply to your question on the telephone. I will clarify everything and reply to you.

Radislav Safin: Before giving the floor to Melis I would like to give notice that we are preparing a series of roundtables, dedicated to the state of newspaper journalism. Please follow our site carefully. 

Melis Erjigitov: I will be brief. Dear participants, to state that the site of the Jogorku Kenesh works only six hours. Alexander, with all due respect for you, this is an exaggeration. Yes, there were problems earlier, and there was no access to the Internet 2-3 hours in the mornings because of problems with the provider. However since New Year, this problem is not that huge. There is Internet connection and the site works. The press-service does its best to provide the reader easy access to information on the activity of the Jogorku Kenesh and also on draft laws that are in the process of enactment and discussed by the Jogorku Kenesh.

Galina Kulikova: Our site is indeed uninteresting. Whether it works or not. Bakyt Jolushbekovich, I propose to meet tomorrow with our head of the press-service and discuss all the problems

Alexander Kulinskiy: We had collective analysis, and Melis was present there. He nodded his head and agreed that there was such a problem. This is a problem indeed, Saturday and Sunday the site is inaccessible. It is inaccessible at night time.  

Bakyt Beshimov: We have conducted an analysis, discussed the existing opportunities and potentials, number of computers, number of providers, how the infrastructure of Internet exists and what can be done on its basis. Later we will make comparative analysis with several other countries, which have the similar situation or started later.  

Alexander Kulinskiy mentioned Kenya. I have been in Kenya and  Uganda over a period of four years. I think even five years ago Internet space in Kenya was far more developed than in Kyrgyzstan, all the more so nowadays. I am sure of it.

I would like to point out what the population of Kyrgyzstan needs in simple things - not in politics, but in service. This service is not used even on the basis of the existing potential. The first reason for it is fear.  What if they write something bad about us? In general,  governmental structures and officials, unfortunately, are not ready to accept the culture of the Internet. They are afraid of this transparency. What if something wrong happens? Even here, the discussion showed that there is a confrontation. Moreover, you probably noticed that there are resources that are afraid to mention somebody. We should lobby in Kyrgyzstan for good ideas, good approaches, good concepts, better service, regardless of its source. But, we should also criticize bad practice and bad politics regardless of its source. We do not have this culture. Everything is personified. Today, they praise this minister, tomorrow he will be replaced and be criticized accordingly. My proposal is that it is very important for us, deputies, to create legislative basis to support the best.

We analyzed the situation with the domain.kg. I think that it is part of the politics. Our country is getting ready for the presidential elections. In this connection, certain strings are pulled and limitations are introduced. Clearance of the space is taking place. But Internet space should develop regardless political lines.

Radislav Safin: Alisher Ahmedovich, you have the last word

Alisher Sabirov: We shouldn't sleep soundly at nights, especially journalists. Bakyt Jolchubekovich is ready to turn any event into a rally. There are no other opportunities and we understand this. Social-Democrats say that when they come to power, everybody will be all so goody-goody; but aren't you realists.  Problems exist, and these problems have to be solved. It is better to solve them in cooperation. This is the third roundtable for me today.  At 14.30 we had a meeting with the Center of Social Research in AUCA. At the roundtable, we discussed how the society, citizens, NGO's can participate in carrying out state tasks, including the enactment of laws in the parliament. Conducting conferences and discussing draft laws with use of the Internet is a good input for our specialists, legal activists in developing a draft law. Also, there was a proposal to include a question on domain names. I think that the problem is that the head of this organization is an advanced user, who knows this system.  We can group together many arguments, but smart people say that the point of view depends on the location of the seat. Melis was in opposition and he used Internet very well. Once he became a state servant, he understood the possibilities of the Internet and began to use it in his own and departmental interests.  

I would like to wish good luck to everybody, and you can sleep soundly, all the more so because Galina Aleksandrovna said that none of our initiative will pass by unattended.

Radislav Safin: We hope that we do not reach the extent of self censorship to force ourselves out of online journalism.

It is becoming more dangerous to be a journalist in Kyrgyzstan in light of frequent attacks, which, as a rule, are preferred not to be linked with the professional activity of media workers.

Soon, we will conduct a roundtable with the participation of the Secretariat of the President, with leading media experts, representatives of the Jogorku Kenesh, independent and state journalists etc. on the subject of how to protect a journalist of Kyrgyzstan. I would like to invite all of you so that you have an opportunity to express your opinion and hear alternative ones.

The roundtable on the subject "Future of Online Journalism in Kyrgyzstan" took place within the framework of the project "Strengthening Online Journalism in Kyrgyzstan" with the support of the British Embassy in Astana.